A 416 dilemma. What to do?

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

I'm sorry about your bad luck Pano, but you admitted at the outset that the frames were beaters when you got them. That's not GPA's fault.

He said they were "pretty well beat". That's not an exact term, and can mean just about anything. The whole point of getting a speaker re-coned/rebuilt is to fix them. You don't start out with a good speaker. That's the nature of the situation.

The condition before hand certainly isn't GPA's fault, but to go back and tell Pano that it's basically his fault for wanting bad woofers fixed isn't right either.

I'm glad it's not me, and am now wondering about the pair, I need re-coned........ I don't have any way to check the parameters either.

[bfish]

I'm becoming increasingly uncomforable with this thread for a variety of reasons...

Me too. The potentially libelous speculation in this thread is very disappointing. (Edit: the following quote is not intended as an example of said speculation, but rather context for my following comment).

...About a year ago I bout a pair of 416As off eBay. They were reasonably price for the shape they where in. Had come out of a pair of A7s somewhere in Jersey. But had been reconed with MI cones. They were pretty beat.

As bought, they worked, but definitely needed a recone and remag. T/S parameters showed weak magnets. So I dropped then off in OK city into the hands of Bill H. He remagged, reconed and sent them to me. Lovely cones, but.... magnets still weak. Qts of about 0.5 on one, 0.4 on the other. No good. Vas not close either. They're way out of spec.

I called Bill to ask about it. He said he was pretty sure they remagnetized them, but they could have slipped thru. So I sent them back. They zapped them again. But they hardly changed at all. So I had to pay for the 2nd remag. Both Bill's measurements and mine show weak magnets, one more than the other...

Is my deductive reasoning shot...? There are plenty of possible reasons, but the drivers are both obviously defective. Maybe the first reconer opened the gap with sandpaper to clear rust or to fit a non-OEM, round wire kit (it happens)... maybe they left the factory bad... maybe they're not 416s at all... maybe... shit happens.

To expect a remag AND full diagnostics for the ~$15 price is ridiculous. We can probably kiss that bargain (for the rest of us with good results) goodbye now.

...am now wondering about the pair, I need re-coned....

Which is exactly the effect of such unfounded speculation.

... I think everyone knows that Bill H. is a very personable/approachable guy .

He's much, much more than that.

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

Is my deductive reasoning shot...? There are plenty of possible reasons, but the drivers are both obviously defective. Maybe the first reconer opened the gap with sandpaper to clear rust or.........

Wouldn't removing any significant material be pretty tough to do that way?

To expect a remag AND full diagnostics for the ~$15 price is ridiculous. You can probably kiss that bargain (for the rest of us with good results) goodbye now.

I would think things would be checked over before a re-cone would take place. Maybe this is indeed a rare thing? ......similar to me not being worried about penguins invading my home. Contrary to what Bfish or GM may think, there are no penguins in Michigan :-)

Which is exactly the effect of such unfounded speculation.

Agreed.

He's much, much more than that.

All my knowledge of Bill is 2nd hand, but that's consistent with what I've heard, and why I always steer people towards GPA when Altec parts and service come up on various forums.

[GM]

I'm becoming increasingly uncomforable with this thread for a variety of reasons.

Then do us both a favor and put this thread on your mental 'ignore' list.

GM

[bfish]

Wouldn't removing any significant material be pretty tough to do that way?.

Not when "significant" is defined by a few thousandths. Such a crude method could explain why they're different from each other too (assuming they were the "same" to start with).

I would think things would be checked over before a re-cone would take place. Maybe this is indeed a rare thing? ......similar to me not being worried about penguins invading my home.

Actually, that's a pretty good analogy.

[airboss]

Then do us both a favor and put this thread on your mental 'ignore' list.

GM

Well, no in a word GM. You are far more the expert in this field than I am. Maybe we should talk about process control on a 900 mile pipeline sometime. Oh, never mind. No forums for that.

I can spot chicken shit and envy from mile away though. This thread, and I'm not talking about everyone, has brought out the lynch mob mentality here and I think it's time for some moderation.

Tell, me sir. Have YOU had any personally disappointing experiences with GPA or do you do all your re-mag and cone work yourself? :welcome:

[Panomaniac]

Whooaaaa there Boys. Time to back up and minute. Ya'll are getting way ahead of way yourselves and maybe implying things I never said nor meant.

Let's set the record straight.

1: It was the cones that were beat, not the frames. And as far as I knew, not the magnets.

2: I have NEVER said, nor did I ever intend to imply that GPA or anyone else is incompetent.
Please re-read my posts.

3: I was only curious as to why my drivers would not take a charge. My impression was that Alnico magnets are commonly revived by recharging. Mine were not. I was wondering (publicaly) why.

My suspicions were that either these 416s were no good to begin with, or that they had been so badly mistreated that they could not be revived. Cosmetically they are a 7/10. One might not suspect there would be anything wrong.

I never said to anyone that GPA was not competent. Never. I was disappointed that GPA would not or could not tell me more, that's all.

If I wanted to rant and rave about something or someone I'd have done it a year ago. You did not see that, did you? These drivers are a write off. If there is someone out there that knows more about it, their info is welcome. And I wouldn't mind having someone else have a stab at recharging one of these. Just to see what happens. I doubt there will be any change.

My dealings with GPA were good. They are both friendly and helpful. I wish they had been able to help me more, but they couldn't - that's all. My desire was to learn more about vintage drivers so that maybe I would not get burned with a bad purchase in the future.

Please do not project your feelings and your meanings on to my posts.

Clear enough?

[airboss]

Clear as a bell, and it was clear in the beginning Pano. You have not made the negative comments on GPA and it's staff. There were comments made regarding the incompetence of the operation there. That was when I asked for some reflection. Now GM says to butt out and I ain't going to be run off by somebody working on their post count by running bad mouth on a reputable company and it's personnel.

What I asked for was that the Moderator, get us some information so that the F'D UP SPECUTLATION might be set aside and we can get the facts. Remember when I got my ass chewed by Old Guy? Turns out he was right. Let's get the facts here and stop with the character assassination and speculation about the equipment and manufacturing techniques at GPA.

I came out of the oil industry. I've seen every kind of chicken poop expert in the world talk endlessley about things they know nothing about. They're called politicians. Talk when listening is in order.

Whooaaaa there Boys. Time to back up and minute. Ya'll are getting way ahead of way yourselves and maybe implying things I never said nor meant.

Let's set the record straight.

1: It was the cones that were beat, not the frames. And as far as I knew, not the magnets.

2: I have NEVER said, nor did I ever intend to imply that GPA or anyone else is incompetent.
Please re-read my posts.

3: I was only curious as to why my drivers would not take a charge. My impression was that Alnico magnets are commonly revived by recharging. Mine were not. I was wondering (publicaly) why.

My suspicions were that either these 416s were no good to begin with, or that they had been so badly mistreated that they could not be revived. Cosmetically they are a 7/10. One might not suspect there would be anything wrong.

I never said to anyone that GPA was not competent. Never. I was disappointed that GPA would not or could not tell me more, that's all.

If I wanted to rant and rave about something or someone I'd have done it a year ago. You did not see that, did you? These drivers are a write off. If there is someone out there that knows more about it, their info is welcome. And I wouldn't mind having someone else have a stab at recharging one of these. Just to see what happens. I doubt there will be any change.

My dealings with GPA were good. They are both friendly and helpful. I wish they had been able to help me more, but they couldn't - that's all. My desire was to learn more about vintage drivers so that maybe I would not get burned with a bad purchase in the future.

Please do not project your feelings and your meanings on to my posts.

Clear enough?

[bfish]

Whooaaaa there Boys. Time to back up and minute. Ya'll are getting way ahead of way yourselves and maybe implying things I never said nor meant.
...........
Please do not project your feelings and your meanings on to my posts.

Clear enough?

Likewise, as a bell. I think if you'll review my post(s), you'll see I didn't infer that your posts were what I have a problem with. Sorry if you got that impression Pano.

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

Not when "significant" is defined by a few thousandths. Such a crude method could explain why they're different from each other too (assuming they were the "same" to start with).

I'll admit, that I don't have a firm grasp on what a few thousandth is........ although, I suppose I could dig out a feeler gauge. It just doesn't seem like sandpaper in the gap could remove much of anything. Maybe I lack the patience to damage something that slowly

Actually, that's a pretty good analogy.

The source of my penguin analogy: We had a bear in town about 2 years ago, and the bear was killed by the police. People were up in arms about the poor bear being shot, and why weren't the police prepared for such an event. Up until that time, a bear in town would have been crazy talk. I figured that if the local police should've known to be prepared for bears, then they should also be prepared for penguins. Bears are normally only in the UP...... or maybe the very north part of the lower peninsula, but the possibility of the bear crossing the bridge was discussed.

I generally don't worry about bears...... although, it does cross my mind now when I'm out in the woods in large berry patch!